Todd, you weren't the one who offered the opinion that the actions weren't illegal, were you?

Zen, it wasn't Todd. The City of Forks met with some Commissioners and somebody from the AG's office and Forks was told that the proceedings were not illegal by that somebody from the AG's office. Forks was told that they could file a motion in the 60 days after the Feb 6th meeting to meet with the Commission about the moritorium.

Todd you guys can spin it all you want!

The truth is your loosing your argument! The legal "snow ball" has started rolling, and its heading your way:D

This should really add even more strength to your theory about Forks

PS; I hear that there is a lot more snow in the path ….its getting bigger and bigger

________________________________________

Chamber of Commerce
March 1, 2004

Chairman State Fish& Wildlife Commission
600 Capital Way North
Olympia, WA 98501-1091

Chairman Roehl:

The Forks Chamber of Commerce share the concerns raised by the City of Forks regarding the decision by the Washington State Fish and Wildlife Commission to impose a two year-statewide moratorium on retaining wild steelhead.

The Forks Chamber of Commerce is a proud promoter of the healthy runs of salmon and steelhead in our Olympic Peninsula Rivers. Our Community welcomes all fisherfolk to enjoy our rivers and make their cast for sport or for food, and perhaps a trophy.

We feel that the manner in which the Commission made its decision failed to allow for public input or comment; and that the opportunity for public input is fundamental to an propitiate decision-making process. This is especially true on such a matter as this, that has a significant impact on our local rivers as well as our community.

There are many voices that should be heard, including residents, sportsmen, river guides, hotels & motels, and the Native American tribal authorities. We recognize that this is not a simple issue; and that there are strong opinions on all sides- all the more reason for public comment.

We also feel that the public, including the Chamber of Commerce and the City of Forks, should have the opportunity to read and study the scientific data upon which the Commission's decision was based. We would expect the data to be specific to rivers, and not general to the state as a whole. We have not seen such scientific data; but believe that a decision of this magnitude must have a scientific basis. In addressing all rivers in the state of Washington, the Commission's decision doe's not take into account the successful steelhead enhancement program at Snider Creek on the Sol Duc River that makes use of wild, brood stock.

For these reasons, the Forks Chamber of Commerce supports the City of Forks as they seek reconsideration of this decision. We join with them in requesting a stay in the decision.

Sincerely,

Francis X. Walters
President

Jerry, thanks for the info.

THANK YOU!

Todd

Gosh...they asked awfully nicely.

The only snowball i see is the one in Hell on which your hopes of having this decision overturned are pinned, better act fast....it's melting quickly.

...and now if you'll excuse me, I need to go shout into the wind, piss up a rope and throw the baby out with the bath water.

I guess something somebody said somewhere somehow somewhat summarizes the legalities.
:rolleyes:

H20

H20

I hope that you didn't drink to many beers before you started pi$$ing up that rope!

And now the "Snow Ball" then becomes a huge avalanche

Now even Todd will be getting a little more concerned. He knows the power of the Tribes!
You may screw with the little guy in Forks, but once the tribes steps in the game is almost over!


Quileute Tribal Council

O2 March 2004

Chairman Will Roehl
Washington State Fish and Wildlife Commission
600 Capital Way North
Olimpia, WA 98501-1091

RE: Quileute Tribal Concerns with the Commission's Wild Steelhead Position


Dear Chairman Roehl:

This letter is being sent to you today to let you know that our government is still evaluating the impacts of the recently announced moratorium on retention of wild steelhead by non-tribal sports fishermen. While that evaluation is underway, we did want to raise a few concerns about the approach utilized by the Commission in the adoption of this moratorium.

First, as you are aware, we are the co managers of the fishery for the entire Quillayute watershed. As such, under various Bolt decisions, there is an obligation by the State as co-managers to consult with the Quileute Tribe in regards to any actions that could impact the management of wild steelhead on this watershed. We are unaware of any efforts by the commission or WDFW to have prior consultation with the Quileute Tribe on this action.

Second, we are also concerned that the general public, tribal or non-tribal, did not have an opportunity to comment on the adopted moratorium. We note that the proposed rule packet for sports fishing regulations did not indicate any proposed statewide moratorium on wild steelhead. It is also extremely interesting to note that the same packet had some comments regarding such an idea in section labeled "2004-05 Sports fishing Proposals not Included for Public Comment." The reason for not including this for public discussion and hearing was that the Commission considered this during the last major regulation change cycle and did not adopt it because it was too soon to re-adress this issue.

Management terms under the 1981 court case known as Hoh vs. Baldrige decision, determined that salmon on the Quillayute, Hoh, Queets and grays harbor has provided the necessary conservation needed for each individual system and has proven itself. We suggest that the commission consider the benefits on such an approach to steelhead management.

In addition, not allowing non-tribal wild steelhead retention on the Quillayute System will likely produce escapements that would reduce survival per spawner by exceeding carrying capacity, create waste concerns and potentially raise racial criticisms towards tribes that do not adopt similar management restrictions.

Third, and finally, we reserve any and all rights our Tribes and its members have under treaty with regards to this issue.

Again, we are currently reviewing this issue to determine what action we may need to purse that would protect the best interests of our government our people and our resources.


Sincerely,

Russell Woodruff,
Chairman

The tribes do carry a lot of weight as co-managers. This line caught my eye

potentially raise racial criticisms towards tribes that do not adopt similar management restrictions.

I don't think everyone will read what you read Aunty. Many are going to say that even the tribes think it was wrong and they are standing right along the sport fishermen side on this one. Now that would be a good thing for all! They didn't have to mention the sport fishermen, but on this issue they have stood by there bothers.

I'll beat you the people of Forks don't look at it your way either

Jerry, I think you're beginning to see the power that their letter really carries

Nice catch Jerry. Bad press is one thing they don't want.

But I will admit the tribes do have a big roll in management.

JJ

You mean they'll look bad if they're the only group still killing wild steelhead? Oh, no.......not that.

But, all the criticism that will rightly come their way will all be due to racism, of course.

And you want to get in bed with THAT group, huh cfm? Sleep well, then.

Here's a solution. How about boycotting the new moratorium and go catch and kill every nate in the systems. Once they are all gone you won't have nothing to biatch about. Maybe you could buy plane tickets and fly to the Midwest to fish. It's really strange to watch this occur as an outsider. it's the same old shiat that we went through 14 years ago. The cruel experiment of WSR has worked well for us, but what the heck would we know about managing fish. Not that the Midwest is the Holy Grail of Steelheading, but we appreciate the hell out the fish we got from you guys and don't have any plans to lose the wild ones we have any time soon.

I will admit that I will be right in the front row protesting the tribes if they exploit the WSR rule ..They will too. They do have an important point though and that is that they want to make sure everyone knows that they are the trump card in all fishing regulations, quotas and seasons. Anyone participating in the last meeting of the North of Falcon process just now getting underway will tell you how the tribes have manipulated that process to their advantage. The tribes want to control our fisheries and they have been doing a good job to that end. They are part of the process and feel they were not included so they will oppose the ruling.

Small group discussions are what gets things done with the commission and I have seen how the public testimony process is a patronizing side show that the commission has to put up with. Time and time again ttestimony and science have taken a back seat to commission decisions. Small groups like WSC have learned to work the process and have made progress forwarding their agenda just as PSA has done. The commercials have always been in front of the commission and WDFW and the sports community is still teething.. All of a sudden the process has shut out public testimony??? What has really happened is that the commission and WDFW has been pleading for input and it has been really lacking so they choose to do what the vocal groups ask for. If you don't ask you are not at the table when the decisions are made. So here comes NOF this week in Mill Creek and Lynnwood....Will you opposition squealers be there>?I will be. squeal for me boy!!! Weeeeeeee!!!

Do you have gill nets in your rivers/lakes or whatever bodies of water you're referring to? Out here, even after rivers are completely closed to sportfishing, the runs decline because of the nets.

Them first, then me?

Whatever happened to leading by example?

Good point JF...

...all except for this part " the runs decline because of the nets."

They are certainly a huge contributing factor and I don't want to minimize that, however the full blame for our declining runs cannot be placed solely on the backs of nets.

Exactly the problem JG... They do not intend to change their practices to any extent. In fact they WILL get taking a higher percentage in the future. I dont know who H2O polled, perhaps 3 of his friends... but 2/3's happy with this is absurd, nobody likes the end around. All this is doing is tearing apart any chance we ever had of making any kind of diference by uniting as sportsmen. That lovely little by product also helps the tribes, commercials, and anyone else with a vested interest! DIVIDE AND CONQUER!! considering the nanny nanny boo boo's I've witnessed here, mission accomplished. As far as steelheading goes I could care less... way overrated for the most part. I Just dont like seeing us made to look foolish and weak as a group.

You can find a link to the complete commission minutes here.

[link deleted]